Talk:Riza Hawkeye

I am trying to write more on riza hawkeye's information.i edit the VA info,and i need some help(unless i finish on time) on the article here plot synoposis manga(my addition) While-role.....extend.....anime...manga...(same line) Riza goes along with Mustang to Resembool to find a talented alchemist named Edward Elric,approximately 4 years ago before the beginning of the manga.She corrected Mustang for mistakenly identify Edward Elric as 31 years old.She later have a conversation with Winry while Mustang talks to the Elric brothers and Pinako .Winry asks her what's her reason for joining the military,and she replies that there's someone she wants to protect.She helds the rank of Second Lieutenant at that particular time.

She later transfer to Central,with Havoc,Falman,Fuery,Breman,under Mustang orders.While having a break after her transfer in Central,she met Barry the Chopper. -- Thunderbreak 04:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)thunderbreakThunderbreak 04:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC) D: I think she dies in volume 100

Inconclusive and unlikely. The neck wound looked too low and to be fatal, at least not instantly. In any case, we won't know for sure until next month. CorbeauKarasu 22:36, October 15, 2009 (UTC) OH!(what a relief that she is possibly not dead)

Age?
Another thing I've noticed: I don't believe Riza should be so young as 25 or even 26. For two reasons: first, she said to Roy at her father's funeral that her father made her attend school, which means she was probably at least 17 back then (1905). And another is that she said she was at her last year of military academy by the time she was sent to Ishval, so she was definitely not 18, but at least 19~20 at that time. Both those things combined (along with the fact that she's a 1st lieutenant) lead me to believe she's definitely not more than 3 years younger to Roy, making her about 27 to 28 years old.--Turdaewen 01:37, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Technically, we shouldn't even list her age because there's no support for it. I do recall coming across information from the first anime that listed her birthdate as 1889 (though I can't find the source now), which would make her 25 at the start of the series. I also disagree that she couldn't be that young. She didn't say how she was educated, and considering the time period, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume she didn't attend school (if she even did attend school) to the age we consider normal now. She was also clearly much shorter than Roy at the time of the flashbacks than she is at her current height. Remember, women tend to stop growing at 17/18, so it's unlikely that she grew several more inches if she was already at that age. Finally, the new anime clearly has some timeline issues by marking Master Hawkeye's death as 1905. Unless Riza attended the academy for about two or three years (and she might not have needed to be of age to attend considering the military's seeming lack of age restrictions, at least when it comes to talented people), there's no way she could have been in her final year at the academy in 1907/1908, which was the time of the Ishbal Massacre. If she was born in 1889, she would be four years younger than Roy and would have been about 19 during Ishbal, which I frankly think works just fine. Anyway, I went ahead and removed her age. We don't list the ages of other characters unless we have proof. -- Kokoro

That's the thing about Arakawa, isn't it? We can't be sure. But it's not true that there's 'no support' for it.

Arakawa has stated more than once that "Riza is not that young, anymore" (in omakes) and has made jokes about her 'not wanting people to know her age" and "already reached a certain age", "not having that younger body anymore". It would be very lame for a 25 year old woman to think herself as 'old' or wanting to 'hide her age' (I'm pratically 25 and I still consider myself someone pretty young). Usually these statements are related to woman in her late 20's, early 30's. And since we're pretty sure she's younger than Roy, that would make her at least 26~27, and tops 29.Turdaewen 15:14, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this, lately, and something came to me that might give us a rough indication of Riza's actual age...

Assuming that, when Roy went back to the Hawkeye's he was just fresh out of Military Academy (since it's highly unlikely they accept people younger 18 years old to join and that Academy is, at least, 2 years). And Roy was 20 years old, back then. After that, Roy meet Riza in Ishval three years later (in 1908), where he's 23 and she was in "her senior year" of the Military Academy, which would make her around Roy's age when the last met (19-20 years old), making her around 3 years younger than Roy.

Therefore, Riza is probably 26~27 at the start of the series and 27~28 by the fight against Father.Turdaewen 21:01, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I am sure that they allow people under 18 to join the military, just from the fact that the military controls almost everything in Amestris, including the parliament. And don't forget that Edward could have been sent to the front lines the moment he turned 16. Despite that, I think that Riza is older, probably about 29 by the end (Mustang is 30 at the end, and she's just a bit younger)--Full Metal Fan 04:39, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but saying that they "sure allow people under 18 to join the military" for the mere fact of them being a authoritarian government makes no sense at all. Being in total control of a government does NOT mean you can do "whatever" or have no rules. Quite the contrary, in fact: to be able to keep such a centralized government for over 20 years (in the least) requires very clear and strict rules. Even because the age limit for someone to join the Military has nothing to do with the Parliament or even with the Legislative, for what's matter.

The age Edward joined the Army doesn't count in this case because he's not a regular military, he's a State Alchemist. And a very special State Alchemist on top of that. He's a true exception (as it is stated several times during the first chapters of the manga) and, if it were for the regular rules, he shouldn't even be a Military as of yet, so we can't compare his situation with regular military personnel. For example: do you seen any other character in FMA who's a military personnel and underaged, or even under 20? The younger one is Fuery, who's around 23 and a Sargent.

But the age they're allowed to enter doesn't matter much, I'm aiming towards the age they graduate in Military Academy, which is probably something way more defined (in fact, by definition, Military Academy is equivalent to undergraduate degree and requires for applicants to have just left high school). And it's also different for you to do Military Service than to join the School of Officials. The fact that there're underaged people in the Military does not mean that you can be a Military Official while underaged. (Also remembering Edward has never joined the Academy, but became only a State Alchemist)

Moreover, is very unlikely Riza is less than 2 years younger than Roy, cause, if she was, she would already have graduated in the Academy at the time of the Ishval Massacre: remember that there's a 3 year breach between Riza's father's death and her meeting up with Roy; and it's highly unlikely that the academy would last less than 1 year, or it wouldn't even make sense for Riza to say she was "in her senior year".Turdaewen 12:22, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not saying that an authoritative government automatically makes a country have low military entering level, I'm saying that in a country such as Amestris, which is fighting wars on multiple fronts and whose whole basis is using war to create a transmutation circle, the military would want everyone they could get, including child soldiers. I don't know if your Canadian, but Omar Khadar, whose parents came from Pakistan, has just started a trial for things likely done when he was believed to be a child soldier. That is a similar situation to Amestris. While having an authoritative government does not make a country instantly have low military entry levels, in a war-obsessed country such as Amestris whose whole basis for existing is war, they would take anything they get.

Also consider the fact that in a different country and different universe such as Amestris, adulthood could be looked on a very different way. Ed could have been sent to the front lines when he turned 16, so it could be that Amestrians consider the age one becomes an adult to be 16 instead of 18. If that were true, the military would easily allow what we consider "young people" to enter.

My final point is that Riza was put on the front lines very early, while she was still in the Military Academy. Many people enter the military before they are 18 to get early training, and are not deployed until they are older. With the situation in Amestris as it was, with soldiers dying in droves, the military might have sent many young troops to the front lines. Of course, these arguments only work if Riza told them her true age. She could have only been 16 or 17, but said she was older to get into the military.--Full Metal Fan 17:41, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

There's no indication pointing that Amestris used Child Soldiers (and I understand the concept of child Soldiers, since I'm an undergradutate in International Relations), so, we should assume that they don`t. Especially when there's absolutely no mention to it. So, that would be a little far-fatched.

As I said: Edward was a different case, since the State Alchemist institution was created to find Human Sacrifices and, therefore, age had little influence in that sense. IF his case was common, it wouldn't have created such a fuzz within the Army and, since it did create a enourmous fuzz, we should assume his case was unheard of.

But all those arguments do not interfere with my statement, nor do they null it.

Once again, the point is not he age when they are allowed to enter the Military, but the age they graduate in Military Academy.

If you notice what I said first: that Roy was 20 when he was already graduated in Military Academy and (moreover, had just graduated from the Academy), so, it's only logic to assume people would graduate around the same age as he did (and considering Riza was also about to graduate, she would be around the same age as Roy when HE graduated), if we take into account that Military Academy is structured to support people of the same age range.

So, in general, is not that complicated of a matter. There're not so many "variables" in this case that could interfere....

It doesn`t matter if majority in Amestris is 16, or 18, or 20. What matters is that they graduate in Military Academy around 19~20. Whether they are underaged or not at that point, it doesn't matter, what matters is that Riza graduated just after Ishval and that, from Roy, we can infere that they graduate around 19~20.

You see?Turdaewen 18:12, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

is it possible that she could have lied about her age at the time to fight in the war/ attend the military academy early? justsaying. it is an alternate universe AND the past so we really cant say what people might do or how well they would check something like that -anon

We should assume she didn't, since nothing has been said about it by Arakawa and, if something as relevant as that had happened (especially since she participated in a WAR because of it), she would have stated it. I'm sorry to say this in such terms but, in all logic terms, trying to make Riza be younger than what has been stated is merely wishful thinking and made up excuses.

Saying it's a "alternate universe" as an argument to say "anything can happen" is a very weak argument and a tautology in the bad sense of the word (which means that it's an argument that doesn't allow inpugnment and, as such, cannot be considered a logical argument) ... it can't uphold a statement at all. Whenever we're talking about an "alternate universe", anything the author doesn't state as "being different" or that it can be logically implied through logic reason as being different from our own should be considered "like our own". There's no other way to be impartial in such cases. Being as such, we should assume Riza is in her late twenties until proven otherwise, for the sake of logic. Turdaewen 16:31, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

And if it was important information, it'd be listed somewhere in the story. She's 25-32 ish, and that's really all that needs to be known, so it's not pertinent information to include. Tommy-Vercetti 17:17, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Can we really imply that?
At the Character Outline, it's stated: "Throughout the manga, it is heavily implied that the two have feelings for each other but cannot express them as a result of the turmoil that the country was in." But there's not way to know that's why "they don't express" it might have a million different reasons why they might not do it and there's nothing in Arakawa's writing the actually leads us to think they even KNOW they like each other. So, I don't think that implications like this (which a clearely created by the Royai fans and not by the original work itself) should be placed in this article. I don't question that there is an relationship implied in the manga, as it clearly is, but merely that we can actually pinpoint a reason for not being "expressed".--Turdaewen 13:14, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. And I also don't think we can really suggest what kind of "implied" relationship they have. Saying that they "have feelings for each other" implies a romantic relationship, but there isn't actually any support for a relationship beyond a close friendship or even a familiar like bond, despite what shippers would like to see. Should we remove it from this page and the Roy page? -- Kokoro

I already removed the part where they stated that. I think we can say that their relationship is implied, though not affirm it an actual relationship at any level, since there's no real declaration in the manga or even by Arakawa. I think we can say they do have something more than just a family/friend bond, especially regarding recent events, but it doesn't mean we can imply that they actually own to it. At the light of late events, I think we can leave that, but my problem was more regarding "but cannot express them as a result of the turmoil that the country was in." as is has nothing to back it up whatsoever. --Turdaewen 11:10, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

About Roy and Riza relationship
I've been noticing that this article as well as the article on Roy Mustang has been showing several phrases and paragraphs biased both in saying Roy and Riza have romantic relationships and saying they actually don't.

So, I'm trying to make this article a bit more 'homogeneous'. So, I please ask you to state only facts, in terms of: not trying to put in 'scenes of the manga' in interpretations that are not explicit on them (as if trying to produce evidents of a relationship), or saying there's no proof they do have anything. This is a very slippery-slope subject, and, in fact, the only thing we can imply from the original work is that they do have a profund bound to eachother and that it's not clear if that bound is actually a romantic one or not. It can be or it can not be. There's no saying for sure. And that's what's supposed to be said about it here.

So, please, refrain from saying "there's proof they do have feelings" or even that "there's no real proof", because, even though there is no real implication in the affirmative or in the negative of that, both sorts of sentence are biesed and lead people do 'look at the subject' a certain way that we cannot state for sure. Saying that there's "no real proof" seems as if fans are 'looking too much into it" just as well as saying that they are romantically involved for sure is looking too much into it. Turdaewen 19:16, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

New Rank
It seems like she has promoted to Brigadier General, because I can't see any star on her uniform.

It's possible, of course, but unless someone examines it closely and offers a detailed confirmation, we don't have enough to say how her rank has changed. CorbeauKarasu 22:19, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

At least for now, is impossible to know her new Rank, cause her insignia is not showing. Maybe Arakawa can reveal it later in the specials or an interview...

The most logic rank would be two, three above her old one (since Roy himself got up three), which would make her a Major or Lieutenant Colonel. It's pretty difficult for her to just turn into a General just 'like that', since she wasn't even a Senior Officer beforehand. She held a Junior Commission. To be promoted 5 ranks in 2 years is WAY too much. I believe she would be either of those two, most probably a Major... But, again, no way to be sure, so it shouldn't be stated in her page. Turdaewen 02:31, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

New Picture
The one that CK added is my favorite so far.

I don't know what's with the "the women in Brotherhood look bad" though. I guess I don't see it at all. Even the most masculine ones were all good, Armstrong, Izumi, Hawkeye. Didn't bother me at all. Tommy-Vercetti 21:09, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

Mine, too... ^^ At first, I was a little concerned about it being too "spoilery", but I've realised the person will not realise it's spoiler unless they know what that part is.

I agree in part on the "women in Brotherhood look bad", but not entirely. I think that, in some scenes, the drawings really leave much to be desired, but not overall. I still prefere Arakawa's design, though and, if it were up to me, profile pictures would be taken from Artbooks and manga pages. Turdaewen 21:45, June 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * First, I think the profile image of Riza should be more formal and neutral, probably with her wearing her uniform since this image choice left us without a single uniform pic on her page (yes she is wearing it in two pics but it isn't really seen...). Second, I'd love it if we could get coloured databook and/or manga images, at least for the main characters. I'll try looking for good scans. --kiadony 07:00, June 5, 2011 (UTC)