Talk:Van Hohenheim

Relationship With Trisha
In the Manga Ed states that Hohenheim never married his mother, so he and Al have their mother's surname. Hohenheim is Hohenheim's surname and he isn't an Elric. The page incorrectly lists him as Trisha's husband and as an Elric, but (at least in the manga) this isn't the case. I don't know for sure about the anime, though.

108.201.73.12 16:40, August 15, 2013 (UTC)MMM

Should Van Hohenheim & Hohenheim of Light Be Split?
I think "Hohenheim of Light" should be made into a different article than "Van Hohenheim" since the anime/manga versions are vastly different to each other, especially their Pre-FMA histories.

Thoughts?

I don't think the articles should be split up, because it makes little sense to do so. Yes, Hohenheim does differ wildly between the two anime; however, no other character is split up (there aren't, for example, two Scar articles, even though his backstory and plot involvement are radically different between the two shows), so it would be somewhat petty to divide up only Hohenheim (and far too laborious to divide all other relevant articles accordingly). 98.227.43.109 21:00, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they should split the wiki in to two sections, a 2003 anime section, and a 2009 anime/Manga section. That way if you want to look up the story from the manga, you don't have to skip past all the 2003 stuff, and vice versa.98.176.1.72 09:23, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Logic in family
If "father" is hohenheim's son then dosent that make "father" ed and al's brother

If so, then yes. Either way, they're all related by blood, so Father is either Ed and Al's brother or uncle depending on how you look at it. And don't forget that blood carries over to the Homunculi as well. I did always think Envy and Edward looked alike :P CorbeauKarasu 19:07, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

]
 * Yeah and there was actually a FMA omake that made fun of it: [http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x57/live4him4eva001/fmavol23_02scanlated.jpg right here.
 * Kiadony 19:15, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Lol I like the look on Glutonny's and Pride's facesThe stooge 05:17, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

In a part of the manga Hohenheim was in a place where they didn´t know alchemy

I actually think you should make two boxes for characters appearing in both the 2003 anime and the manga/2009 anime.

Like, for Envy for example; there's one box. "Motives: *manga motives*" but then you have to throw in his 2003 anime motives with an * to signify a difference. That's too crowded in my opinion. There should be two boxes. Manga/Brotherhood Envy and 2003 Envy.

Cornwiggle 22:19, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hohenheim made father. I don't think that will make them family because father is a humunculus.Grim13 19:02, May 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think that Hohenheim stated that Father was literally his alter ego, just with a soul tainted with the gate and cast off al his cardinal emotions. So, in a way, Father is like an alternate Hohenheim, and the Homunculi are like alternate Elric Brothers, or it can considered as such that the Homunculi are literally dettatched parts of Father, like the plot suggests. So, they're not family, but they're are more like twin-like clones. Anyone share a similar thought?

Lin Yao 13:34, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

No, that's not quite accuratre. While it may be problematic to call Father and Hohenheim "brothers", there are two separate beings related by blood. Father actively chose Hohenheim's form when crafting a body for itself, it could have chosen a different form and in addition, their personalities were never the same. Father is not another version of Hohenheim or an alter ego, but a creature given life by Hohenheim's blood. The Homunculi, as offshoots of Father, also have that blood inside them and therfore share blood ties with the Elrics and Van. Normal familial terms might not be the most accurate to define their genetic relationships, but they give a general idea. The same blood gave birth to all these people. Personally, I've always thought that Envy's human form looked a bit like Ed, but then there's nothing to suggest he didn't just steal that form from someone else. CorbeauKarasu 16:01, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Or even created that body by himself (Envy, I mean). But I do get Lin Yao in the sense that Homunculus, in alchemy's tradition, is a being created as a sort of 'mirror' of the alchemist that created him. But we have to remember that it wasn't Hohenheim who created the Homunculus, but the Alchemists from Xerxes. Either way, you can simbolically understand Father as a "dark-Hohenheim" in a sense, but that is only on a simbolic level and not a concrete one. Concretely speaking, the Homunculus is a lot closer to what, in mythology, we call an "elemental" (though not exactly) and not a human being. Father and Hohenheim are merely 'related by blood' and, therefore, somewhat a family member. Turdaewen 16:17, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

CK, I stared more at Envy, and I still don't really see Ed in him very much. I mean, there are a few things, but I could say the same thing with a lot of characters. A lot of Arakawa's younger male characters look a lot like, and that's what I give credit to any similiarity between them.

Like Turdawen said, I always thought Envy could create whatever persona it wanted, and it just made up that "young, cute" form on its own. Remember when he turned into some young spikey haired soldier that one time to evade Fokker? I never saw a soldier like that anywhere, so I assumed he could literally create any face he wanted to and just made up that one too. He uses that one as his military guise several times if I recall. Tommy-Vercetti 18:00, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Parallel Hohenheim
Well, I wouldn't say it creates a plot hole, really. Whether the parallel world counterpart has the same appearance and birthdate, it is not necessarily true that they die at the same time. Edward continued to survive after his own counterpart died and Al continued to survive after Alfons died as well - not to mention the difference in physical and mental age between them due to Al's alchemical "reset". If Hohenheim does have a counterpart on Earth, that person - lacking alchemical power - would have died centuries ago. Even the counterpart of his current body would be way too old to be alive during WWI, much less WWII. CorbeauKarasu 16:19, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

The way I see it, his counterpart was dead already, and the counterpart of his new body was possibly dead as well. Therefore, when Hohenheim travelled through the gate, his whole body went through. We know this is possible because this happens to Edward after his counterpart dies.--Full Metal Fan 16:59, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Glasses Discrepancy
It was possible for Hoeinheim to aquire glasses back in xerxes because on one of the last episodes when he has flshbacks about people he knew their is a child studying and he has glasses on so im requesting an edit to that portion of the trivia section

Firstly, Hohenheim never had glasses at all in Xerxes. Secondly, each one of the actual "images" of the souls within him is anime only. In the manga, he merely mentions them, but they are never seen. With the anime's inclusion of that little scholar boy with glasses, they created a minor continuity error. That's all it is though. Tommy-Vercetti 23:03, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

oh i understand my bad :D ~cannibusCAT

makes all the sense that Hohenheim is using glasses in the present, because before he get the immortality, probably he couldn't see very well. So he hadn't glasses because they aren't very common in that time. Don't u agree? JPPCouto 00:09, October 6, 2012

Has anyone considered that maybe there is no in-universe explanation for his glasses? It's possible that Arakawa gave him glasses simply for practical reasons. Maybe it was because wearing glasses made it easier to distinguish him from Father (just like having Father's god-form be half-naked helped to distinguish him from Edward). Or maybe it was because glasses also helped to give him a more humble appearance. Plus, at times having light reflect off of them could make him look more mysterious by hiding his eyes, or even make it easier to draw him by allowing her to skip drawing his irises and pupils all the time. It's what I'd do if I was the author/artist of a manga that was published monthly over a ten-year stretch. Then again, maybe I'm just lazy. Damaijin (talk) 05:02, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Hohenheim's Birthplace
In the box for his birthplace it says Xerxes, but isnt he a slave? why would they inslave thier own people? So shouldn't it say "Unknown"? I could be wrong about this though...

-BeatBoxer31

It is not mandatory that a person should be from a different country/culture in order to be enslaved. In Ancient Greece, for example, most slaves were due to loss of citzenship matters, such as financial debts... Many times, they would even be born in the same city they have been enslaved on. The same happened in India, where the structure of caste would make some people naturally born as servant to others.

Moreover, we have for a fact that Hohenheim was born in Xerxes both from his physical appearence, because he was promptly accepted as a citizen once he received alchemical knowledge and, more strongly, he's refered to as "Xerxian" at the guidebooks.Turdaewen 10:31, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I see, very good point. Thank you

-BeatBoxer31

Homunculus Tag
I don't see why the Homunculus tag shouldn't be on this page. I see your point that he's a human with a Philosopher's stone in him CK, but we consider Wrath and second Greed homunculi and they're in the same situation. Some of the characters don't seem to consider Hohenheim human, when Fu feels Hohenheim's presence he asks Edward "your father is not human?" This could be because he doesn't know Hohenheim's story, but Ed's reply shows no sing that he considers Hohenheim human either. I feel he's a humanoid homunculus in the same way Wrath and the second Greed are, I'm curious as to what other people think. Fullmetal Fan 17:00, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Wrath and Greed literally had the stone shoved into them, forcing their bodies to adapt to it. Hence how they can age as well, while Hohenheim is forever ageless, as is Father. It's just not the same. Didn't Hohenheim at one point say that it was just infused to his soul, but he still had a normal human body? While the human-based homunculi it seems only have the stone powering their bodies. It's complicated and hard to explain, but they're not the same, nor do I think Hohenheim should be considered a Homunculus. Tommy-Vercetti 17:09, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Wrath had a philosopher stone shoved straight inside his bloodstream, making King bradley given the named "Wrath". However, he has a disadvantage. He can age, which is a possible comparision to Van hohenheim also, who was given immortal power and likely the same abilities as Father. Father and Hohenheim have a rivalry between the two whether they're both homonculi or not. I think Father is a Homonculi, and Hohenheim is not. IIRC, I can't verify this statement for sure because there was a episode where Hohenheim's body might of regenerated back when Father tried to take his philosopher's stone out of him. So what I can say about Greed is this, Greed can also age since his stone was shoved straight into Ling Yao's body after Father boiled Greed down the first time, so this likely means Greed in ling's body likely ages also. I thought Hohenheim was permanently ageless, but in episode 63 of FMA:Brotherhood he dies in front of Trisha's grave. So believe it or not, this has became full of theories and debates that I may never be able to solve for myself. So I think Hohenheim isn't a homonculus, just affilated with the Homonculi.

Limexialia (talk) 22:49, October 4, 2012 (UTC)Limexialia

Just a note:Hohenheim couldn't age because he had all those souls in him. And at least how I understand it, he uses up souls when he uses certain kinds of alchemy(at least that's how I understand it). Regardless, we know he used up a bunch of souls in the fight with Father, because when Father is defeated, Hohenheim tells Ed that he has only one soul left in him: his own, and offers to let Ed use it. I got that the reason he aged and died at the end was because he only had one soul left, and technically wasn't a philosophers stone anymore.

And, to make this more relevant to the thread, a Homunculus is a being created by a human. Although Wrath and Greed were originally fully human, they have a philosophers stone inside them. Father also has this trait. He has the philosophers stone inside him. But Hohenheim is repeatedly said to be a philosophers stone. He doesn't have a philosophers stone inside him, he is the philosophers stone. That's the difference. Even between Hohenheim and Father, it would make sense for Hohenheim to have all the souls in him, almost at an equal level(which would explain why he can talk to them), while Father simply uses them.98.176.1.72 09:42, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Seiyuu Rominazation
Hohemheim's seiyuu's name has an extra "u" at the end of the "o", but that doesn't apply to all the others, despite being the same (Example: Unsho/Unshou/Unshō Ishizuka, Yuji/Yuuji/Yūji Ueda). Should I edit the overhead o's and u's on those seiyuus' names rather than put extra u's and o's instead? Belial Edge 23:27, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. Fullmetal Fan 17:20, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right: he's not an Homunculus. Tecnically, not even Ling is an Homunculus, since he has an homunculus within him, but he, himself, is human. In the case of Wrath, on the other hand, we are not sure if he remained a human or not cause we don't know if the soul that survived inside of him was actually his own, but either cases are utterly different from Hohenheim: Wrath is an Homunculus, Greed is an Homunculus... King Bradley (as before the transformation) is not, and neither is Ling.
 * It's important to make the difference that what categorizes a Homunculus is not having a Philosopher Stone inside them, but being an "artificially created human being" and, in that sense, the only character in FMA who's a (true) Homunculus is Father. Let me explain: the seven homunculi are parts of Father, they are not individuals dettached from their source, which is Father's soul. So they are Homunuli because Father is an Homunculus, and not because they have the Philosopher Stone. To further enlight that exact point, we have as a fact that Father was an Homunculus BEFORE he adquired the Philosopher Stone!
 * He got the Philosopher Stone to become a "perfect being", and not to become an Homunculus (that aspect is intrisic to himself).
 * I think is very important to understand the dynamics of the underlying story of FMA and that Homunculi are one thing, Phisolopher's Stones are another. They're not directly (just incidently) connected to one another, and mixing that up may lead to confusion about the concept of the Homunculi. Turdaewen 19:03, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * He got the Philosopher Stone to become a "perfect being", and not to become an Homunculus (that aspect is intrisic to himself).
 * I think is very important to understand the dynamics of the underlying story of FMA and that Homunculi are one thing, Phisolopher's Stones are another. They're not directly (just incidently) connected to one another, and mixing that up may lead to confusion about the concept of the Homunculi. Turdaewen 19:03, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Alkhestry Use
There is a claim on this wiki that Hohenheim is never seen using Alkhestry. I would like to (attempt to) refute this on the grounds that, in Episode 42, Hohenheim is seen transmuting with no movement, but the color of the lightning when he does so is blue (the same color as with Amestrian alchemy and Alkhestry) as opposed to red (Philosopher's Stone alchemy). While this could admittedly just be an oversight, it does suggest that he can use other forms of alchemy (perhaps simply using his Stone as a catalyst in the reactions as opposed to a toll), and only resorts to using his Stone directly when he must perform very powerful transmutations very quickly (as he did against Pride and Father). Does anyone else agree with this? 98.227.43.109 19:47, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Well, when he went to Xing he effectively invented alkahestry, or at least evolved it from a fledgling pseudo-science based on magic into an actual science. So in my opinion, the idea that he is never seen using bogus. He may use Amestrian alchemy because of the philosopher's stone inside him, but I'm willing to bet that he uses alkahestry as well. In fact, I doubt he ses his stone very often, as that would deplete the lives of his "friends," that is the people of Xerxes (that's not to say he never uses Amestrian alchemy, he just doesn't use the stone for it.) Fullmetal Fan 07:29, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your input! Also, I believe that Philosopher's Stone alchemy is different from Amestrian alchemy (as they operate differently and use different energy sources). So, he can use the Stone without using Amestrian alchemy, and vice versa. It's a shame that Hohenheim wasn't shown using Alkhestry more often- as far as I can tell, he only used it on one occassion! 98.227.43.109 20:23, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Is it true?
Is it really true that hohenheim is a homonculus? Does anyone think that there are theories that he is a homonculus? However, in the anime/manga, he somewhat manages to live in the 2003 anime after Dante is somewhat killed by Greed's gang (Possibly either Martel or Roa themselves). Isn't he also considered a philosopher stone in the 2003 anime also due to the fact that somewhat Hohenheim has almost the same power as Father does in the 2009 anime? What's your thoughts or opinions on Van Hohenheim? Do you think he's actually a homonculus? Do you think he might have the same powers as the 2009 antagonist Father? Or do you think he's just only a living philosopher's stone with the same abilities as Father?

Give me your thoughts and theories on him.

Limexialia (talk) 22:39, October 4, 2012 (UTC)Limexialia

A Homunculus is a created human, with a Philosopher's Stone in place of a soul. Hohenheim even says this himself to Alphonse; he's a regular human with a stone fused to his own soul, which, keeps his normal human body immortal. It's just the same way that real Homunculi are just as fragile as real humans, but they have to Stone to immediately heal all damage.

He's not even similiar to a human based Homunculi either. Because in that case, I see the reason they're able to age because the Stone isn't fused to THEIR soul (hence, their body's soul) but rather the Homunculi's essence that is pretty much leeching and using the human's body for their own purpose.

Bradley confirms this with "I'm not sure the one soul left inside me was my own or someone else's"

Hohenheim retains his original one, from the day he was born. Either way, the last thing I'd call him is a Homunculus. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 15:44, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Powers and Abilities question
Would it make sense to say that Hohenheim learned how to read/sense the flow of chi during his time in Xing? It might explain how he was able to tell Izumi had lost some of her internal organs and knew how best to rearrange what was left to allow for better blood flow. If anyone agrees with this, the question becomes how do we fit it into the Powers and Abilities section? Damaijin (talk) 04:43, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

In the trivia section, it said that Hohenheim supposedly knew Trisha when she was a child, but I found something wrong with that: it was actually a dream sequence. When I was re-watching the episode, I noticed that Pinako (looking young) and Hohenheim were talking about Ed and Al, and I'm not quite sure, but I think they were talking about how the two were learning alchemy. But, as we see various times throughout the series, Pinako was already an old lady when Ed and Al were children, so I've come to the conclusion that it was simply a dream sequence. Also, not to mention the strange happenings after that. I'm not saying that Hohenheim did not know Trisha as a child, I'm just saying that the indication mentioned doesn't hold much account. Perhaps it's different in the manga. But as far as the anime goes, I'm fairly sure that it's not absolute fact that he knew Trisha as a child.


 * Look, first off, you're taking the entire episode waaaaaay too literally. It IS a dream sequence, 100%; I will confirm that; Hohenheim got wasted after coming home, passed out and had that dream. It's harder to imagine someone believing it ISN'T a dream.


 * But, yes, you do make a point that if it is a dream, then there's no hard evidence that Hohenheim knew Trisha as a child.


 * However, in the context of a dream, Hohenheim can revist Pinako's youthful appearance (there is a photo of the two of them when she actually was that age that confirms they did know each from that long ago), Trisha's child-like appearance (the fact he even knew what she looks like at that age also implies he did know her then too to some extent), but, at the same time, his current mind can process the goings-on around him; ie, Ed and Al.


 * The entire episode is basically a dream that delves into Hohenheim's psyche. He's trying to get perspective on his place, how to approach it, and he's using memories of all of his past friends (arguably, he had much more fun with Pinako when she was young too) to help him do so. Note too that Trisha appears here as both a child and adult.


 * Dreams are not concrete manifestations; they're abstract. So this dream was just that. It's more about Hohenheim's metal state than the physical dream itself, and through that, we the audience can then gain more insight into the character without boring exposition or whatever. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 21:05, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Evidence?
Right, having recently watched both series back to back, I've altered the comparison trivia thusly to reflect more facts, and less... Whatever the last person was writing about -


 * Van Hohenheim remained faithful to Trisha in the years following his departure. Hohenheim of Light, however, was shown to be quite the womanizer.

I removed this all together cause there's honestly no basis for it. Hohenheim (2003) showed nothing but loyalty to Trisha, the only things he seemingly showed his "Womanizer" nature was a 400 year old relationship with Dante and a conversation where he reminisced about an old memory which Lieutenant Ross found very charming, he didn't seem to have any romantic interest in her as his later statements make clear.


 * Whereas Van Hohenheim dedicated himself to atone for a crime he did not commit, Hohenheim of Light did nothing to atone for the countless crimes he did commit, and instead chose to do nothing to stop Dante and to wait for his inevitable death. (It was only when he learned his sons had been swept up in Dante's scheme that he finally chose to confront her. But even then, the reason he confronted her wasn't to atone for his sins, it was to protect his sons.)

I've then edited this to reflect the fact that we don't actually know if Hohenheim of Light attempted to atone, and also removed that he did nothing to stop Dante, as he was unaware of her plan and didn't think she was capable of creating a stone herself (She wasn't, he just never figured she'd use someone else) So unlike Father, who was a legitimate threat to people, the most Hohenheim was aware of was Dante's control of some Homunculi and possibly the government which, while not good, weren't necessarily a danger to people at large. It now reads like this -


 * Whereas Van Hohenheim dedicated himself to atone for a crime he did not commit, Hohenheim of Light is never seen to be atoning for crimes he did commit, instead deciding to allow himself to decay without causing more harm.

Finally, I've edited the following -


 * While Hohenheim of Light never showed intention of returning to Resembool and his family, Van Hohenheim had made clear for Trisha he would come back once he had dealt with the Homunculus and ceased to be immortal. This can be shown through Trisha's profound confidence that Hohenheim hadn't abandoned them and would eventually return and die with her, as shown in her last words "I'm sorry, but I'll go ahead of you".

Once again, we have no evidence that he never intended to return, as a matter of fact we have evidence to the contrary as he arrived at Resembool independantly of anyone else or possible provocation to do so. At no point did he say he didn't plan to return, simply that he left to avoid his kids seeing their father rot away. I also think the bit with Trisha is kinda extraneous to the point, but whatever. Anyway, I've edited that to -


 * Van Hohenheim had made clear for Trisha he would come back once he had dealt with the Homunculus and ceased to be immortal. On the other hand, Hohenheim of Light's motivation for returning to Resembool at all is unclear, as he had evidentally found no way to halt, or even slow his own body's decay.

Honestly, I don't know what happened here, it seems like someone just went a little far with casting the 2003 itteration in a bad light with a very twisted perspective.

Now people are entitled to their opinions and thinking the 2003 version is kind of a scumbag is fine, but the wiki, trivia or not, should reflect factual evidence. To quote the Boondocks "The Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence." We cannot confirm that Hohenheim of light didn't atone and we cannot confirm that he never intended to return, we can only say that we've see little evidence to support these, although, again, he did return to Resembool, I just can't figure out why he would.

I decided to list my edits and reasoning here in case someone thought I was vandalising or showing favouritism to the 2003 version, but again, I just want to be clear that, no matter the opinion of the character, we can't go demonizzing them without evidence. I mean, come on, Kiblee probably eats babies, we just can't prove it. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:36, September 5, 2014 (UTC)