Talk:Alchemy

There is an article about transmutation circles here, and the section here, both have a considerable amount of information. Should we make the separate article a main article and link to it or merge the TC article with this one? Kiadony 08:21, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I think it'd be best to merge the TC article into the alchemy article and just have Transmutation Circle redirect to this section. I just wonder if we can add more pictures to the TC section of this article without making it look cluttered or if the section needs more than one picture.CorbeauKarasu 12:36, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Well, if the section is long enough (if we include as much info as we can) it won't look too bad with several images. And we can make smaller thumbnails. Kiadony 15:42, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

The pages used to be separate until they were merged. Though there may admittedly be a case for separating out the Human Transmutation section into its own page (though I also feel it would be best included here) The concept of Transmutation Circles is far too central (pun?) to Alchemy as to be separated into its own thing. CorbeauKarasu 10:34, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

Reversal Alchemy?
I was wondering, since Ed gave up his "gate" to give Al his body back, is it possible to reverse it to get his gate back?

In other words, can someone reverse the process to get back there gate if they lost it.? 24.211.167.146 22:17, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

No, it's permament. The only reason Ed was able to come back to the mortal plane was because he and Al were interlinked and he used Al's Gate. Mustang even says that he couldn't do it, since if he destroyed his Gate (only one), he'd never be able to get back. Tommy-Vercetti 23:23, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

I doubt it. Since each person's Gate can be thought of as part of them (the part that allows them to use alchemy), creating one could likely be considered a form of human transmutation. At least, that's my opinion. Of course, there is probably no canon answer, since it has no part in the story. Even if Arakawa has an answer, it's not canon unless she releases it to the public.--Fullmetal Fan 23:32, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Since the box was limited
The 2003 anime establishes that the power to use alchemy comes from dead humans in "our" world, so, since humans repopulate like crazy (just like in real life) technically there is no limit to the surplus of available energy, so thus, it originally negates the manga in which "concentrated human souls power alchemy".

The manga knew what it was doing, and the 2003 series copied it until it diverged and then just pulled some stupid plot point out which negated the entire concept itself, that the alchemic energy is never ending.

In the manga, even the non-stone alchemy came from Father (who was essentially a stone) so I think we should keep that the 2003 series negates the Exchange rule entirely. Remember in the manga, the only kind of alchemy that isn't Philosopher Stone related is Alkahestry, which isn't the same thing. Tommy-Vercetti 19:09, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Red vs Blue
I get the concept entirely, but in the manga, in reality, Amestrian "Alchemy" is a total ploy set up by Father and the Homunculi, using Father for its energy source. Well, if that's the case, as a living stone himself, then technically shouldn't ALL Amestrian Alchemy then be red as well?

Only Alkahestry, which actually uses Earth's energy should be blue I thought. Tommy-Vercetti 18:44, July 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Still, there *is* such difference in the anime, I mean, they do use those colours and we should note that. Of course, technically all of Amestrian alchemy is stone-powered, but they still made the lightnings blue, to avoid spoilers maybe? --kiadony 06:17, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure the blue is to avoid spoilers, if I had seen red lightning without knowing the reason I wouldn't think "the lightning is red because of the philosopher's stone", I'd think "red is just the colour they chose". Maybe someone else would look deeper into it and think about the reason for the colour, but I for one wouldn't. Fullmetal Fan 06:52, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, or maybe they simply didn't know about Father powering the alchemy of Amestris. I don't know whether Arakawa revealed it to them in advance or not. Also, I believe that the colour scheme was reused from the 2003 anime, where it actually worked. In the 2009 anime however, it could be considered a plot hole. --kiadony 07:06, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

I still can't call it a plothole. If you think about it another way, even though all the Alchemy is coming from Father, essentially a living Stone, regular alchemists are still bound by Equivelant Exchange, which would make no sense if they were using a stone. So maybe Father filters his power down so it's just a collection of available energy, rather than each alchemist literally using a stone themselves. Like, when you have a literal stone in-hand, you're using its power directly. But with Father, it's just a like a reservoir of energy that collected from him and it's not particularly directly from the Stone. So then it makes sense that it would be blue in that regard. That's just what I think. Tommy-Vercetti 17:46, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

In the end of FMA: Brotherhood. When Ed sacrifices his gate. Does Ed only lose the ability of the use of Alchemy. Or does everyone in the world of FMA lose the ability of the use of Alchemy? I'm confused ^ ~ ^

It's only Edward who loses his ability because he sacrificed it personally. Everyone else who could use it before still can. Also, please remember to sign your talk page entries with four tildes (~). CorbeauKarasu 02:01, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Points of Order
Browsing this article, I noticed I had several problems with its accuracy:

1. I don't recall anything that says, "Amestrian alchemy is powered by Father." I realize this was suggested in an earlier volume, but towards the end, the "big secret" about the Philosophers Stone turned out to be just that Father was using it to stop alchemy. The theory the article posits does technically explain the same thing as what I said, but it contains more assumptions. So, that is why I am changing that.

2. This one I'm not changing, because my recollection might be a bit foggy, but wasn't it the case that, in the 2003 anime, yellow was actually the "general" color for Transmutations, & blue was the color used by anyone who had seen the Gate? I seem to recall in the "revive their mother" episode where Ed & Al activate the circle with a yellow glow (albeit with some blue), before it turns purple. And then every Transmutation they've used since then has been blue. Same with Izumi, Dante, & Hohenheim.

3. The 2003 anime concept in no way negates the concept of Equivalent Exchange. I don't know where you're getting that. Hohenheim even brings it up in explaining that "the energy has to come from somewhere." In-universe, it's never explained how alchemists get around this hole in the theory. However, it's mentioned that Amestrians don't have a great understanding of physics, so it's possible that they never even realized that the lack of a known energy source was problematic to the Equivalent Exchange law.

I think that's all, for now.75.206.76.9 21:53, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Near the end of the series Hohenheim tells Edward that the energy for alchemy comes from the stone inside Father's body. Also, when they come out of Gluttony's stomach Father does something that stops all the Alchemists in Central from being able to transmute, but Scar and May are still able because they use Xingese alchemy.

I think you're right about equivalent exchange in the 2003 anime though, the souls passing through the gate are simply what powers the transmutations, something still can't be made from nothing. As for the spark colour, I haven't watched the 2003 anime in years, so I can't remember how it works. Fullmetal Fan 22:04, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Homage to Alchemy different version?
Hey guys, this can be an inappropirate place to ask this but in FMA: Brotherhood OST there is this song called Main theme Homage to Alchemy. Do you know of any different version of that song? That different version of that song was used in the anime. Sorry for my English by the way195.174.95.147 22:00, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

How Amestrian Alchemy works?
The article explains that the source of Amestrian alchemy is Father's Philosopher's Stone, but I don't think that's true. The way Scar and Hohenheim explained it to Lan Fan and Mei was that Amestrian alchemy did derive its energy from tectonic plate movement, but Father could use the Philosopher's Stone to impede or completely block it off. When Scar's brother said, "There's something strange about this country's alchemy", he was referring to the way it was being hindered.

Another reason I think this is correct is that there is no way Father's Philosopher's Stone could provide the energy for every transmutation performed in Amestris for 400 years. It would have been used up too fast, and any human transmutations performed on live humans would have been successful if the stone was serving as a catalyst.

This would also resolve the "Red vs Blue" discussion further up the page.

Damaijin (talk) 19:25, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

About that I got a doubt, the reason why alchemy exists and is used by alchemists in amestris is because Father had spread philosopher's stones in all over the country, right? But if that's the reason, when that energy will end? And that means if Ed (with 15, for example) travelled to another country he couldn't used alchemy? (I think the answers for this topic may be important for the understanding of the series) JPPCouto 02:06, December 8, 2013 (GMT+0)

It's simple. Amestrian Alchemy does work exactly how Marcoh describes it; as energy from plate tectonics, but, Father has laid out a layer of "padding" if you will across that around all of Amestris, so they are actually using his Philosopher's Stone; and that way, he can shut it off and control everyone's Alchemy at will.

Scar's Brother's reversal circle eliminated Father's barriar and allowed Alchemists of Amestris to directly tap into the Earth (again, those plate tectonics). Alkahestry was always immune, since their alchemy works in a different way and was unaffected by Father's Stone barrier. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 18:56, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

So u are saying the energy that comes from plate tectonics is infinite? And that plate tectonics thing works not only in Amestris but also in other countries (Creta for example)? JPPCouto 19:13, December 8, 2013 (GMT+0)

Technically speaking, no energy source in the universe is truly infinite, but the energy generated by plate tectonics is still tremendous, nonetheless. Tremendous enough that people in the real world have begun harvesting it themselves (try googling "geothermal energy", if you're curious). So yeah, using that energy could theoretically power alchemy in a universe in which it exists.

As for how it works over great distances, I think you should allow the fiction a little suspension of disbelief, especially considering human souls powering quasi-magical pseudo-science at all is preposterous in its own right.

If you're jonesing for an explanation, though... The energy generated by plate tectonics--especially during earthquakes--travels outward in 3 dimensions for considerable distances. This would supply alchemists with energy even if they were not directly over any particular fault-line. Furthermore, Amestrian alchemy may also utilize heat energy generated by the Earth's core, in which case alchemists would have access to that power wherever they may be, since Earth's core is located directly beneath everything on the planet.

I'd like to point out that there is no way Father would share his philosopher's stone with any alchemist, seeing as how they're insignificant bugs and such. Also consider that it didn't take very long for the heroes to exhaust Father's philosopher's stone, even if he was using a large portion of it to keep "God" in check. Considering that, it's safe to say that his stone would be incapable of powering the countless transmutations performed over a period spanning centuries, even if he was providing only a small measure of its energy each time. (I think the reason Father taught Amestrians how to use tectonic energy for alchemy was that he knew he'd be able to control it himself if ever it was necessary to do so. Damaijin (talk) 02:48, December 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I am a bit perplexed on that whole "padding" layer. Several times you see regular alchemists, and their transmutations are regular 'blue energy', obviously not using a stone, or Father's layer. But, at the same time, that begs the question how he can turn it on and off at will if it's not coming directly from his own stone. Then there's that entire pipeline, which is heavily implied to be just that; him 'fueling' something. And, there's the fact that he's noticably a little bit 'older' than Hohenheim, no doubt because he's drained off more souls inside him; either from his Homunculi or the Alchemy.

So, I'm not 100% sure how he did it, or if it was ever fully explained, apart from being alluded to. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 14:56, December 27, 2013 (UTC)