Talk:The Gate

Think we should have an image for each character's Gate? Just putting it out there. --DARK 00:58, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

It would be interesting to have them on file, but in an article this size, it would be far too cluttered. i suppose, however, that we could include pictures of the various Gates in each character's profile page. CorbeauKarasu 02:18, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

What about like one of those gallery things? They don't take up too much space, and since we only have 5 Gates to show, we could probably squeeze them in on the bottom of the manga section. --DARK 02:25, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there are 3 gates to show, cause Izumi's and Hohenheim's Gates were never shown in FMA. Turdaewen 14:55, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of a gallery.--Fullmetal Fan 18:28, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

In the manga version, it is called "the doors"(tobira in japanese), while it is only called the gate (mon in japanese) in the 2003 anime.

The trivia is incorrect. It is NOT in every media except the english brotherhood!dub called "the Gate"! As mentioned above the correct term used in the manga is "the doors"(tobira; used as well in the second ending of the first anime). "The Gate" is a first!anime!only term! Please correct this article; a wiki shouldn't include false or incomplete information!

Idiot^ Tommy-Vercetti 22:02, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

By the way, "tobira" in Japanese is literally something like "Doorway" as you said, something with doors that opens. Gateway, hence "Gate" or "Doorway" are both two perfectly logical translations for the word. I see what FUNi is trying to do with "Portal" but honestly, when someone says "portal" I think science fiction-like, a round opening in space, not anything with doors. Gate works here and it's either doorway or Gateway, so your suggestion is pointless because it's already called The Gate. And I have watched the episodes on FUNimation's own site; they say "Gate". So, I have no idea where you're getting any of this from. Tommy-Vercetti 22:05, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

The Gate of... Alkahestry?
I'm wondering how- if at all- the Gate is connected with alkahestry. I'm aware that Amestrian alchemy and alkahestry have two different energy sources and intents (the former focusing energy toward the center while the latter manipulates and "bends" energy throughout the circle). But because they are both forms of alchemy and are presumably based off of knowledge from within the Gate, they should be connected to it somehow. With this in mind, several questions can be asked:

Is human transmutation possible with alkahestry?

If not, does an alkhestrist get dragged through the Gate in the same way, and suffer the same damage?

If the former is correct, can one "clap transmute" to perform alkahestry?

And, can a human transmutation be reversed by using an alkahestric reverse?

Does anyone have any ideas about any of this? (Feel free to speculate, but please, be nice about it and give me genuine ideas. Thanks!) 98.227.43.109 01:03, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's a good question, though I personally have no clue of the answer. I'm sure once a few more of the regulars see it; who know way more of the FMA world workings than me, will be able to answer your questions. And don't forget to sign your posts either. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 22:40, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

The way I see it, alkahestry and Amestrian alchemy are two different paths to the same destination. That is, the same rules apply to both. To use an example, it's like comparing running to riding a bike. Both are forms of transportation that will get you from point A to point B, however they are different, just as alkahestry and alchemy are different. Additionally, both follow the same rules, the laws of physics. So therefore even with alkahestry human transmutation is impossible and one would be dragged through the gate for trying it. Also, while they might not be able to "clap transmute," they would still be able to somehow transmute without a transmutation circle (again, different paths to the same goal).

As for alkahestric reversal, I don't think it's a thing in and of itself. What I mean is, a "reversal" could be done using either Xingese or Amestrian alchemy. The reason Hohenheim used alkahestry to create the reversal circle was because Father new little to nothing about alkahestry. Therefore he wouldn't be able to recognize the circle, and on the the chance that he did he would have no way to counter it.

Those are just my theories, I hope that answers your questions or at the very least gives you something to think about. Fullmetal Fan 08:02, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

I probably should have been a little clearer on what I meant by "alkahestric reverse". I was refering to when Scar's brother superscribed the Nationwide Transmutation Circle with an alkahestric circle, thus nullifying the barrier of Philosopher's Stone energy below Amestris. I was wondering if a similar method could be employed with human transmutation circles to reverse their energy flow and negate the results of the failed transmutation. I originally thought that this was how Ed and Al were going to restore their bodies (and I was a little disappointed when it didn't happen). 98.227.43.109 14:41, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

But if they did it that way, that literally would have been a "reset button" for the entire plot, and, in my opinion, an awful cop-out for everything that was setup. It's like "You can do anything bad and then immediately undo it 100%" That takes all the drama out of anything. In the ending, Ed has to make a pretty hefty sacrifice to regain that which he lost, and even then, he still never got back his left leg. So I really am glad there was no magical "undo" option for the consequences of Human Transmutation; it would have defeated the entire point of redemption that it setup. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 17:55, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Fair point and well made! I would make the argument, however, that it would be at least a LITTLE more profound than a "reset button", because it wouldn't take out the drama on its own. The brothers still had to struggle and suffer to even learn what alkahestry was, and after doing so still had to fight and kill nearly all of the homunculi and save their country, while at the same time losing several friends and allies and being forced to relearn the lesson that human transmutation is impossible. All that hard work, hardship, and fighting would then culminate with them learning a relatively simple method to restore their bodies, which would introduce both a sense of supreme irony and the idea that equivalent exchange can be both spiritual or physical. To me, this both preserves the drama and allows for a satisfying denouement. As it was, I was kind of pissed that Ed had to give up his alchemy. Even with the message of sacrifice and exchange behind it, that action just left a bad taste in my mouth. Still, to each his own, I suppose. Thanks again for your input! 98.227.43.109 19:49, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

But all those sacrifices you're mentioning are external, like, not pertaining to the brothers in their quest. Imagine if the Homunculi just didn't exist, they could have just gone and learned it no problem without any struggle. That's what I'm meaning; that's still a cop out to good drama in my opinion, because really the obstacle in the way are "bad guys" and if it weren't for them, it'd be easy.

The way Arakawa wrote it; even if the Homunculi didn't exist, Ed would still have a terribly tough time trying to regain that he lost. It's not about the bad guys, it's about the brothers, more internal than ex. That's the point of redemption in a story like this, not just having external obstacles stand in your way. That's 1-dimensional writing. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 15:23, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Again, you raise good points, but I think you're oversimplifying the point I tried to make. (If you think otherwise, sorry for misunderstanding you!) I never said that the show wasn't about the internal nature of the Elric brothers- I was actually trying to use that exact trait for my idea! My point was that, because the brothers suffered so much and grew as people, they paid a metaphorical and spiritual price for their sins, satisfying the equivalent exchange of their bodies being taken. (After all, Truth intimated that the loss of their bodies was a lesson in the dangers of hubris and greed, a lesson which the two gradually came to understand fully at the end of their journey.) From there, the two (with some help from their father and friends) then saved over fifty million people, helped to put an end to a corrupt dictatorship, and put an end to the scheming of a deranged being who threatened everything (and, as a bonus, allowing that being to be reclaimed by the Entity of the Gate, thus making it once more complete). This (again, in a metaphorical/spiritual sense) paid the toll required to restore their bodies. From there, the brothers superscribe the human transmutation circle they used so long ago in Alkahestry, reverse the energy flow of that ill-fated transmutation, and regain their lost bodies- all without compromising the drama of the show or violating the principles of alchemy. (And if you doubt the authenticity of the "spiritual payment" idea, remember that Philosopher's Stones are limitless in terms of alchemy, despite their physical size and mass, because souls have such a high spiritual price.) 98.227.43.109 23:07, July 20, 2012 (UTC)