Talk:Father

Hi, I decided to make a change here when I noticed something that didn't make sense.

Father's True Form, it had "This is the only form that takes damage"

I didn't get it because the whole explanation was about how it didn't take any damage and is invulnerable to anything. And when you take into consideration that his Hohenheim form was impaled numerous times before he was expelled; that's damage, and his God form was beaten to an everlasting pulp, they take damage. So I decided to change "This is the only form that does "not" take damage"

I hope that's a better change. 97.123.89.238 19:03, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Father just a title?
As I understood it from the manga "Father´s" true name is actually Homonculus, and Father is merely what his children (understandably) call him. This rubs off on Edward and others when they hear the Homonculi talk about him, but I don't think he ever states he has renamed himself Father, nor does Hohenheim, the only person who really knows him, refer to him as such. 81.236.21.141 19:03, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Hohenheim is really the only person who calls him "Homunculus" (Hohenheim's master called him 'the homunculus') so the name Homunculus is really just a title. Since the majority name for him is Father, that is what we should call him.--Full Metal Fan 04:57, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

He himself says that he wish to be called Homonculus, I believe, and he never tells others to call him Father. But maybe it's better we go with what most readers/characters (whichever you meant) call him rather than what's only technically true. Perhaps it deserves a trivia mention? 81.236.21.141 20:12, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Good Gentlemen?
I just noticed that another name has been added to Father's name box now.

"The Good Gentlemen"?

Huh? I've never heard anyone call him that before, where did it come from? I'm up for removing it unless someone can fill me in. Tommy-Vercetti 14:08, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Generals of Central Command don't call him Father. Brigadier General Edison refers to him as "The Good Gentleman" a number of times. CorbeauKarasu 15:01, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Deceased
Father is in the deceased category... is that really true? From what I saw, he's technically not "dead", morso banished than anything else. He's gone for good, sure, but technically, he's not dead. Tommy-Vercetti 21:15, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Technically, he's not so much 'dead' as he is re-absorbed. Father was originally a piece of the life and knowledge found in the Gate of Truth - this was taken (by unknown means) and given life with human blood. In a sense, Father was technically reduced to his original form - knowledge inside the Gate of Truth.

A recent edit made me notice that he's still in the "Deceased" category...and I can't for the life of me figure out how to remove a category from a page. Does anyone else know how to do it, and if you do can you do so and share your wisdom? I know there used to be a box on the side with all the categories of the page so they could be edited/deleted, but that seems to be gone (thanks Wikia, I've got a big list of other things that aren't broken yet need fixing for some reason). If it stumps everyone I can ask Wikia support. Fullmetal Fan 08:53, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Odd. The categories box on Father's page is still there for me. Is it still missing while you're signed in?



Here's a thumbnail of what I see when I see the edit page, with no category box. I'm starting to wonder if Wikia made it so that only admins can remove categories in the same way that only admins can delete pages, because it looks like I can still addcategories fine. Fullmetal Fan 21:05, December 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Never mind, I was just being dumb. When I was looking at that screenshot I noticed the arrow on the right side, and when I pressed it the sidebar came back. A few weeks ago the sidebar minimized without me touching it, so I thought it had been removed. Fullmetal Fan 21:09, December 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't agree with removing "deceased", yes, while "technically" he's alive due to Pride, it's still Pride and/or Selim. Father himself, the entity which this article is about is dead. I mean, if this is the reasoning, why are any of the Homunculi listed as deceased? If Pride is interchangable with Father, that should count for all of them.


 * Or is this another reasoning? Like, he wasn't killed in the Gate? He's just banished? Which is it?Tommy-Vercetti 22:54, December 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I was going by the "Pride is still alive" argument, but I suppose it's true that Pride isn't Father, despite being a part of him. I suppose saying he's alive is getting overly technical. Is Father dead? Yes. Is every part of him dead? Not exactly. The Deceased category probably could stay now that I think of it, that probably makes more sense. Fullmetal Fan 23:57, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Missing out alot of info from the 2009 series
Don't just write "In the manga" or "Manga", write "Manga and 2009 anime series". You guys forget to add the part when the Homunculus Greed was brought to Father's lair, refused to be a good son and help his father, and Father got Greed into his soul temporiary. Another part you guys forgot was that in Episode 28 of the 2009 series, Father made Van Hohenheim's sons Edward and Alphonse Elric and the Elrics' friend Ling Yao, later trying to battle him, and put Greed's Philosopher's Stone into Ling's body.

Softest form of carbon
The softest form of carbon is NOT charcoal! Charcoal is fossilized remains, the softest form of carbon is graphite, the stuff you find in pencils.NightTrain 00:50, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

"It is possible"
That is a joke to literally be including 'real life' homunculi, and this trivia literally makes no sense. It would be on par with something along the lines of "You could literally make a machine to go to Pokeman land and make them real"

It's fantasy and was hardly very interesting or relevant trivia in the first place.Tommy-Vercetti 20:25, September 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think you misunderstood what I meant, or I'm misunderstanding what you mean. I didn't mean it was actually possible for a homunculus to be created, I meant it could theoretically happen again in the FMA universe. It happened once, so why couldn't it happen again? Fullmetal Fan 21:12, September 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * But why does that even need to be mentioned? Obviously it's possible, that's why it happened there. I literally do not see any point to that trivia whatsoever.Tommy-Vercetti 21:26, September 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, finally I see what it was trying to say. It was not well-written. If you want to rewrite it and add it back, I guess I can see it. I would write something along the lines of "It is possible that yet another Homunculus could be created in the same manner as Father, but highly unlikely"


 * It was way too convoluted earlier, which is why I misconstrued it so badly to begin with. You really have to focus on it to get the original point.Tommy-Vercetti 21:41, September 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * We may as well just leave it out then, because it seems to me that it will either be convoluted or not have the facts to back it up. I suppose I could try to tweak it a bit to make it sound better, too. Fullmetal Fan 06:46, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

I won't edit this in, but would it be a stretch to say that he was the closest human-born existence to God?

&quot;I no really understand this language! Bye-bye!&#39; - Lin Yao 12:43, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

"Truth" is the only kind of God in FMA, so that point has no relevance whatsoever in my opinion. Tommy-Vercetti 12:44, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

"The real God taketh heed lest a sparrow fall. But the god created from human vanity sees no difference between an eagle and a sparrow." - Bram Stoker, Dracula
 * At the point of his "perfection", Father may have been the most alchemically powerful being on the physical plane, but in terms of understanding, complete knowledge and demeanor, he was absolutely nothing like the "Truth" who revealed itself as "God". So no. CorbeauKarasu 14:25, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * If memory serves, Truth says it is "known as God." Meaning that certain understandings of the word "God" fit Truth. That might sound like semantics, but "What is God?" was a recurring theme in FMA's world. The ancient Xingese thought that to be God was to be immortal. Father thought it was to have the entirety of the Truth and be purged of "human sins." Some would say that it's "the intrinsic order of the universe"--something that Ed seems to agree with at times & disagree with at others. I would contend that "True Father" was a God in the same sense as Truth, but that Truth is much higher in terms of the sheer scale of its power.Neo Bahamut 06:28, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Father over Dante?
I prefer Father over Dante, and the 2009 series over the 2003 series. Chidori1,000 (talk) 16:47, September 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * It really depends on where you are in each series. Dante's history and end goal are fully revealed before most of Father's development even begins.Neo Bahamut (talk) 18:54, September 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I feel that Father is more mysterious, and gets less involved. Because of that, everything is kinda unexpected. I definitely didn't expect his goal in the ending, which is just how I like it.Chidori1,000 (talk) 19:41, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Interesting Trivia, But Is It Noteworthy? And Where?
I recently made an interesting, symbolic connection dealing with the Lab No. 3 entrance to Father's lair. The room is this large, white expanse with two enormous, ornate stone doors.

Sound familiar? It should, because that's exactly how you'd describe the realm where the Gate is found. So, do you think that maybe Father, in his arrogance, created this room specifically with that in mind? If so, that would almost be as if to say, "The Truth lies beyond these Gates", or even "You are now entering God's Domain" or "God lies within", implying that he himself is God.

It definitely fits, and thinking about it retrospectively, it also foreshadowed his intentions. The question becomes, is this really noteworthy, and if so, where would it belong? On Father's page? The Gate's page? Lab. 3's page (Does it even have a page?) So yeah, neat idea. I put it to you, my fellow editors. Damaijin (talk) 01:25, September 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think that's reaching a little, but then again, I think that about some of the existing trivia. So, if it were me, I would just plop it in whatever pages I felt were relevant. I would, however, keep the point short, merely indicating the similarity in appearance, then note that Father may or may not have done it on purpose. Putting in his hypothetical thoughts kind of cuts up the subject & makes things messy.Neo Bahamut (talk) 01:34, September 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't see any reason not to add it. Sounds correct to me. Problem is, I wouldn't put it on Father's page, since Lab 3's interior hardly seems very relevant to his character. However, there IS a lab 3 page, and I think it would go best there in some trivia. Tommy-Vercetti (talk) 15:15, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

English dub on Father's fate
According to the English dubbed version of the 2009 anime, when Father was sent to the Gate in defeat, Truth appeared and states that the reason for Father's defeat and inability to merge with God was due to:

"You were incapable of believing in yourself. You stole your power from others, you rejected your human origins, and chose to covet the power of what you call God. You never grew beyond your days in the flask. Did you truly think you'd become superior to humans by removing your seven desires? Don't make me laugh." --Aggression25 (talk) 08:35, May 24, 2015 (UTC)